What is Hinduism ? ( Part II)

[KirKS]

Why I am a Hindu
Shivdas Nambiar

Nice read for your next plane journey if you happen to strike a conversation involving religion!

http://www.haindavakeralam.com/HKPage.aspx?PageID=10608
[QUOTE]
'Why can't you believe in one personal God?'*

'We have a concept - abstract - not a personal god. The concept or notion of a personal God, hiding behind the clouds of secrecy, telling us irrational stories through few men whom he sends as messengers, demanding us to worship him or punish us, does not make sense. I don't think that God is as silly as an autocratic emperor who wants others to respect him or fear him.

'I told her that such notions are just fancies of less educated human imagination and fallacies, adding that generally ethnic religious practitioners in Hinduism believe in personal gods. The entry level Hinduism has over-whelming superstitions too. The philosophical side of Hinduism negates all superstitions.*

[Sarkar07]

Swami Vivekananda had shown a complete discrepancy between the Hinduism and Christianity. Yeshu had given an example of sacrifice and his followers are enjoying life fully. Krishna had given an example of enjoying all material things and his disciples are avoiding material pleasures.

Krishna's example is more pertinent, because, he was the only one in Mahabharata who enjoyed everything and was still completely dry in the sea of material pleasures. His example shows what mental power is all about. He knew that he had a mission, he enjoyed life to it's fullest, he completed the mission and he left the world without any remorse. On the contrary, Bhishma (who had left material pleasures like marriage for the sake of his oath) was tangled in all his past deeds and mistakes and relatives till the time he died.

Very interesting! I don't understand how Krishna stayed "dry" but the interpretations of the lives of Bhishma and the followers of Hinduism and Christianity are interesting. Thanks.

[kalki]

Let me quote from Da Vinci Code (which I also agree with). Ever since there has been one true god (monotheism) there has been numerous killings in the name of that god. Would hardly call that progression of thought.

The observation has been that many world societies at the dawn of civilization were pagan (animism, polytheism, etc etc) and as time progressed moved to monotheism. Look at the beliefs of ancient Greeks, Romans, Egyptians, Native Americans, and Indians. The beliefs were very primitive. Egyptions had Sphinx and Greeks believed in Centaurs existence (or Romans, in Mercury, Hermes etc) and Hindus in Ganpati. Most others in the world walked away from those beliefs.

If one of the members were to start a new religion today which one would they create, a polytheistic one or a monotheistic one. How many believers really believe that there are many Gods (God has some well defined special attributes)?

When the subsistence of humans depended on forces of nature that they could not control and reasoning knowledge had not been amassed, it would not be surprising that sun, wind, moon, etc all were worshipped. At this point, the livelihood depended upon the so called heavens and astrology and astronomy both were one "science".

As philosophical thought advanced, the polytheim believers in the world have dwindled, astronomy became a real study and science, the beliefs of astrology got relegated to same position as beliefs of worshipping thunder gods, etc. I view that as a progression of thought and one day, perhaps in another 100 years, the world will place religion in the same corner as they now place astrology.

[layman]

First is Ahimsa. Ahimsa not only means “not to use physical violence” and “not to kill”. It also means one should not hurt another even in the mind’s plane. So the words one speaks consciously should be such that another should not feel hurt. Dont hurt others is the essence of Ahimsa.

(Corollary: This does not mean one should pontificate ahimsa in a war situation. After extolling virtues of ahimsa, Krishn asks Arjun to fight citing it as his duty and indicates it’ll be a terrible mistake if he abdigates his responsibility. Pacifism in front of a osama’s islam or hitler type catholic bully, wont be noble acts. That said, in an ordinary situation, everyone cant take to arms and choose violence. Another important corollary is abuse of power is considered himsa)

This is a wrong impression created by the Hindus. What Krishna advocates to kill innocent and old people like Bhishma, Dhrona is justifying violence. This is like Godfather justifying the killing of the corrupt cop and his enemies. What is right for one person will look wrong for another person.

Besides, it is wrong to say Hinduism advocated non violence. Vedas is filled with instances of sacrificing horses, goats and other animals to God.

Violence agsinst enemies is praised in vedas.

Indra is praised for killing thousands of the abject tribes of Dasas with his arrow and taking great vengeance with "murdering weapons." (Rig Veda IV:28:3-4) One hymn mentions sending thirty thousand Dasas "to slumber" and another hymn sixty thousand slain. A hymn dedicated to the weapons of war (Rig Veda VI:75) refers to a warrior "armed with mail," using a bow to win cattle and subdue all regions, "upstanding in the car the skillful charioteer guides his strong horses on whithersoe'er he will." The arrows had iron mouths and shafts "with venom smeared" that "not one be left alive." Hymn VII:83 begins, "Looking to you and your alliance, O ye men, armed with broad axes they went forward, fain for spoil. Ye smote and slew his Dasa and his Aryan enemies."

http://www.punditravi.com/rig_veda.htm



[quote]
To summarise Hindu Dharma is both universal and secular in the true sense. Focus is on behavior rather than on commands, providing vent for free will. There are no dogmatic hateful schisms: believer versus heathen, momin versus kaffir, burgeois versus proletariat.
(IMPORTANT COROLLARY: Since totalitarian dogmas like communism, islam, xianity do not conform to Hindu Dharma’s essence, they are adharmic creeds, undesirable for societal well being – not just in India, but any place where they operate)

Source: Does have a bit of anti-other religious tone, but explains the Hindu aspects well.
http://zoomindianmedia.wordpress.com/2009/08/01/what-is-dharma-for-a-hindu/[/quote]

Every religion advocates rest of the virtues you mentioned such as sathyam, astheyam, shoucham... Tell me one religion that advocates asathyam or to succumb to greed. All religion extols these virtues.

What is unique to Hinduism is the Varna system and Sanatan Dharma. This is the difference w.r.t other religions. This is explained well by Kanchi Kamakoti

"
The moral and ethical ordinances in other religions are applicable to all their followers. In Hinduism too there is a code of conduct meant for all varnas and all jatis. But in addition to this, there are separate dharmas for jatis with different vocations. There is no intermingling of these vocations and their corresponding dharmas. This fact is central to Hinduism and to its eternal character. ...

http://www.kamakoti.org/hindudharma/part20/chap9.htm


Hinduism advocates moral values just like any other religion; how it is different from other religions is that it has this concept of continuity of life, rebirth, karma and birth based duties.

[anwesha]

Does Hinduism or sadhus/babas/swamis coerce public to convert non-hindus to hindus? Chinmaya 'Mission' sounds like a missionary org. formed for this purpose. Is my assumption wrong?

[indigoyogi]

Does Hinduism or sadhus/babas/swamis coerce public to convert non-hindus to hindus? Chinmaya 'Mission' sounds like a missionary org. formed for this purpose. Is my assumption wrong?

Yes. In Hinduism, nothing is achieved by coercion.. Moksha or liberation is yours to attain and you choose the path. Hinduism has a high place for the guru, but it is really the Guru principle and not the physical guru in some cases.

I believe a majority of missionaries genuinely believe that people are going to suffer eternal damnation unless we choose 'their' God. So, in a way, their missionary activities stem forth from an altruistic motive. However, whether how many missionaries in India do it precisely for that purpose is a question. There are a lot of missionaries who simply use this as a ruse to fleece money from rich nations by showing head counts. The similarity is not lost on some hindu gurus too.

[indigoyogi]

This is a wrong impression created by the Hindus. What Krishna advocates to kill innocent and old people like Bhishma, Dhrona is justifying violence. This is like Godfather justifying the killing of the corrupt cop and his enemies. What is right for one person will look wrong for another person.

Besides, it is wrong to say Hinduism advocated non violence. Vedas is filled with instances of sacrificing horses, goats and other animals to God.

Violence agsinst enemies is praised in vedas.

Indra is praised for killing thousands of the abject tribes of Dasas with his arrow and taking great vengeance with "murdering weapons." (Rig Veda IV:28:3-4) One hymn mentions sending thirty thousand Dasas "to slumber" and another hymn sixty thousand slain. A hymn dedicated to the weapons of war (Rig Veda VI:75) refers to a warrior "armed with mail," using a bow to win cattle and subdue all regions, "upstanding in the car the skillful charioteer guides his strong horses on whithersoe'er he will." The arrows had iron mouths and shafts "with venom smeared" that "not one be left alive." Hymn VII:83 begins, "Looking to you and your alliance, O ye men, armed with broad axes they went forward, fain for spoil. Ye smote and slew his Dasa and his Aryan enemies."

http://www.punditravi.com/rig_veda.htm





Every religion advocates rest of the virtues you mentioned such as sathyam, astheyam, shoucham... Tell me one religion that advocates asathyam or to succumb to greed. All religion extols these virtues.

What is unique to Hinduism is the Varna system and Sanatan Dharma. This is the difference w.r.t other religions. This is explained well by Kanchi Kamakoti

"
The moral and ethical ordinances in other religions are applicable to all their followers. In Hinduism too there is a code of conduct meant for all varnas and all jatis. But in addition to this, there are separate dharmas for jatis with different vocations. There is no intermingling of these vocations and their corresponding dharmas. This fact is central to Hinduism and to its eternal character. ...

http://www.kamakoti.org/hindudharma/part20/chap9.htm


Hinduism advocates moral values just like any other religion; how it is different from other religions is that it has this concept of continuity of life, rebirth, karma and birth based duties.

Ahimsa is the first limb of Ashtanga yoga and is prescribed for anybody on a spiritual path for liberation or self-realization. It is not advocated for Kings. There are dharma for King and others. But, complete ahimsa is prescribed for Yogis only. How can you wage a war or defend in a war, without doing himsa?

[Purujit]

I believe a majority of missionaries genuinely believe that people are going to suffer eternal damnation unless we choose 'their' God.

I have some friends who are missionaries and I don't get a notion that they do it because they don't want others to suffer eternal damnation. They do it because they are happy about their religion and they want to share it. One gospel saying from Mark 16:15-16 "And He said to them, ?Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation." This may be the prime reason. They are commissioned to share the Gospel to others.

[indigoyogi]

I have some friends who are missionaries and I don't get a notion that they do it because they don't want others to suffer eternal damnation. They do it because they are happy about their religion and they want to share it. One gospel saying from Mark 16:15-16 "And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation." This may be the prime reason. They are commissioned to share the Gospel to others.

That too.. Again, I thought the underlying reason for sharing the gospel is so that people will get eternal life.. I am not blaming them. I am saying a lot of them genuinely believe it. Just curious, are your friends Indian / Americans?

[boca]

They do it because they are happy about their religion and they want to share it.

My religion, we are happy smoking the pot. We want to share our happiness. :)